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Enhanced Retro & Release 12

Posted By: Jan

Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 06:46 AM

Hi,
Im after advice on R12 and Enhanced Retro. The current orgainsation is running on 11.5.10 with a possible of updating to R12, they currently utilise retropay by element/Retro Notifications, they do not wish to upgrade to enhanced retro. Is this possible if they upgrade to R12. Can someone also confirm that enhanced retro does not allow for Retro Pay re-tries.

Jan
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 06:57 AM

Jan,

I am currently on a R12 upgrade and its the clients choice to upgrade to enhanced. As standard the upgrade gives you Retro Pay by Element/Notifications.

I haven't tried a Retry of Retro as yet but I don't see why you can't.

I'll get back to you shortly and confirm

Cheers



Paul
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 10:55 AM

Hi Jan,

Retro Notifications is part of the enhanced retropay process. You can retry enhanced retropay the same as any other payroll process.

Regards,

Delboy
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 11:28 AM

For info, I am going forth with Retro Ehnanced with Overlap which should (fingers, toes, arms, legs, hair and anything else I can cross, crossed) have a massive improvment on performance. Enhanced is no different to Retro Notifications in that you run Retro Pay againts a small number of assignments. With overlap it uses Balance adjustments in memory to record the balances and will only go back to the Reprocess date, unlike all other versions of retro.

You have to have Parent element feeding into a Retro Element unlike before, especially if a balance is refered to within a formula as this will require every element feeding that balance to have a Retro element too (regardless of being used within retro or not)

I will document all findings and place them up here when complete.

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 01:42 PM

Hi Paul,

As a heads up, we had serious performance issues with enhanced retro in 11.5.10.2. Numerous performance patches applied. They may have been resolved in R12.

Has the process changed in R12, cos in 11i you have no choice on the assignments you want the process to run for. It just runs for all the assignments that have been detected by the notifications process, unless you have manually removed them.

Delboy
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 02:11 PM

Del,

I am in the early stages of testing and designing Retro elements BUT from my own intial testing in a 12.1.3 environment you can select an assignment that has been marked for retro and deffer the action permenatly. Not go as far to remove the action as I needed it at the time but will make sure that it does as it says in the tin.

According to the white paper for Overlap, the bueaty of it all is it will not reprocess retro all the way back to the start of time so even if all assignments are marked to Retro it will only go back to there earliest reprocess date (this date being the date the trigger was triggered from!)

Get a full Retro environment next week so will update more as I go along :-)

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 02:45 PM

Paul,

You're right about the overlap but if you defer an assignment, the next time you run the notifications report, it changes the status to awaiting processing so you have to defer it every time if you never want it run.

Del
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 02:49 PM

Really? I'll watch out for that then. It gives me a message saying it will remove this assignments events for ever .... see what happens

Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 29/03/11 03:35 PM

Maybe things have changed in R12, but don't always believe the message you get.
Posted By: Jan

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 30/03/11 10:00 AM

Thanks Guys,
for your update. I await your final results Paul,from your testing.

We are in the process of undertaking a proof of concept on the changes between 11.5.10 and R12, lots of questions being asked around enhanced retropay, and the new overlap facility.

I know what you are stating Delboy, that enhanced retro is like any other payroll process, therefore you should be able to roll-back and retry however many times that you want, but like I said the payroll department that I work for, was informed that you could not do this with enhanced, hence my question.
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 30/03/11 11:01 AM

Hi Jan,

They may be getting confused with the Retro Notifications process. This has no rollback or retry facility. Once it is run the relevant assignments are flagged for retro and the triggers cleared. The Enhanced retropay process itself can be rolled back and re-tried.

Regards,

Delboy
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 01/04/11 12:46 PM

From my initial tests so far (remembering I am using Retro Enhanced with Overlap) I have found the following:

I ran 3 quick pays each spanning a payroll period. Jan 2011 to March 2011

I then purged one of the elements to create a Retro event bcak to its original creation 01-Jan-2011.

I Ran Retro Notifications and the Reprocess date returned was 29-JAN-2011 (the Period End of my first quickpay).

I then changed the status for this assignment to deffered, which allows me to update the status.

I choose to delete the event from the Retro Status and I was presented with this message:

You are trying to delete a system created retrospective change from Assignment ...: ...... Instead of deleting this retrospective change, the application will change the status to 'Completed - Deffered Forever' to ensure that this retrospective change is not picked up in any future Retro Notifications Reports. You cannot revert this change. Do you wish to continue?

I selected Yes and this action was removed from the Notification Report.

I then made a subsequent change on the assignment record but with an effective date in March (my third quick pay run)

Run notifications and the Reprocess date being returned was March as expected.

I then ran Retro Enhanced and the results I got was a retro entry for the change I made, effective in March, and I also got one Retro element created for the element I had purged earlier.

So to simplify my findings above, I purged an element which had been processed in all my 3 quickpays. I deleted this from the Retro Notifications status (Reprocess Date 29-JAN-2011). Made an additional change which created a new Retro Noification (Reprocess Date 29-MAR-2011). Run Retro Pay and the results returned where for the one additional action PLUS one purged months retro element.

This has shown to me that the Overlap Mechanisum has worked and only retrospectively goes back to the Reprocessed date. It has shown that even though I had created a retrospective action going back as far as Jan 2011, because I had deffered and deleted the action from the Retro Status, it was only acting on the newly created event triggers!

I am so far impressed by its ability to only go back as far as the actual date in which the earliest retrospective trigger was created created in the month unlike its current regression back to the start of time.

I know the scenario I have used means that there are two months of retro activity outstanding which will be processed once my assignment is updated with a back dated change in Jan 2011 or earlier. What I was trying to test is that if, for what ever reason, you did delete a retro triggered event and created a new one and the new trigger was created for later in a year it would only go back to the reprocess date of this deteced event and not the purged one.

Will keep updating with details on performance of Overlap compared to R11i Retro Pay By Element.

Cheers



Paul

Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/04/11 05:12 AM

Hi Paul,

You're easily pleased aren't you.

The 'Completed - Deferred Forever' message is obviously something new in R12. Probably as a result of an SR I raised some time ago. Oracle supplied us with a script to change the Deferred status to Completed in 11i. Seems they have now built it into R12.

Del
Posted By: Gavin Harris

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/04/11 09:36 PM

Bottle of Whiskey and a nice Cuban Cigar was all it took to keep Paul happy last time we worked together!!

Cheers for the info though guys! Been very interesting reading!

Gav
Posted By: Jan

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 11/04/11 07:19 AM

Hi Guys,
one other question for you iro R12, I am led to believe that there are problems with Customisations/CEMLI's when you upgrade, is this correct?
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 11/04/11 02:32 PM

Back to Retro Enhanced and a question for you Del. How did you handle Formula and Table Value updates as a trigger against an assignment for processing? Technically I am not sure how easy or performance wise this is but the client I am working on (never knowingly undersold) wants a process built to trigger all assignments affected by a formula change as of the update date. They want it this way because current Retro Pay just deals with these changes with out having to be told.

There may be a standard way of doing this and maybe I am missing a trick.

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 11/04/11 03:06 PM

Hi Paul,

Simple answer is, we didn't. There aren't any triggers for formula or table value updates. Fortunately, we haven't had any back dated changes to these....YET! My guess is it would be a custom process...Over to you CT / Baz, any ideas?

Del
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 11/04/11 03:33 PM

Thanks for that update Del. I know we need to create a bespoke process to capture these events but they want something all singing and all dancing. I was hoping that someone had noticed R12 being a bit more what the user wants.

I have technical docs for the way it was done on previous site but that was by using assignment sets etc.

If Baz or CT have any comments the more the merry :-)
Posted By: Chris Abraham

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 11/04/11 08:29 PM

Hi Paul,

We have changes to udt's being picked up by enhanced retro. You need to include pay_user_column_instance_f in the event groups and some custom code in pay_event_groups_pkg that specifically checks for changes to the rows in the udt when element entries connected to the udt exist and have been processed within a run or quickpay.

We have this working for globals also but haven't tried it with changes to fast formula but would assume the same method could be applied.

Cheers,
Chris
Posted By: bcooper

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 05:42 AM

Hmmm
I've not done anything linked with triggering retro from a formula change.

Where i am currently, and certainly on my last couple of Payroll sites, we have never buried rate information within a formula.
Obviously statutory formula changes (PAYE and NI etc) are always published in advance so the calculations are in place, so i've never had to deal with retro on formula changes before.

That said, and as Chris has alluded to, it may be a case of adding the FF_FORMULAS_F table into the event group trigger list.

Regards

Barry
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 06:21 AM

Thanks one and all for you input, much appreciated.
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 09:05 AM

This may seem like a silly question with an obvious answer but how do I (or can I) update the Tables in the Event Groups? What I mean is how can I add more i.e. FF_GLOBALS_F? I have two R12 environments, one which is Consultancy Version and one which is client copy. Client copy has additional Table HR_ALL_POSITIONS_F and Consultancy copy has FF_GLOBALS_F

thanks in advance


Paul ... nice but dim :-)
Posted By: Gavin Harris

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 09:14 AM

Have a look at Others > Table Event Updates... You can create new Table Events there...

Hope this helps out!
Gav
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 09:33 AM

Cheers Gavlar .... Can I come back over please :-) I want sunshine, beers, bbq's, cigars and whiskey :-)
Posted By: Gavin Harris

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 09:41 AM

No worries mate! I got a spare fridge now for me beers! Quite well stocked now too!

Catch you soon mate!
Gav
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 11:08 AM

Ok another question for you more technical persons out there. We have the table pay_user_column_instance_f included in the Table Events list of Tables with the Dynamic Trigger of Package checked. Using my simple functional brain, I am assuming that an update to a Table Value will (which matches the Row Level Events defined) trigger an Event. Is the package PAY_DYT_USER_COLUMN_INSTA_PKG (set as the package name for the Dynamic Triggers) clever enough to identify who the update affects or does the Package require customising?

I should know all this from my days working at Oracle but its been years since I played here so feel free to mock :-(

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 12/04/11 11:42 AM

Its ok, I have my answers, Thanks all
Posted By: bcooper

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 13/04/11 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by paulgos
Its ok, I have my answers, Thanks all


Do share...
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 14/04/11 05:43 AM

Hi Paul,

There is a note on My Oracle Support on the very subject of UDT's and Global Values and retro. Doesn't mention formula though. Checkout note 944783.1

But, as mentioned by Chris, it does require custom PLSQL code.

If anyone has any sample code (Chris?) can they post it up here.

Cheers,

Del
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 14/04/11 06:26 AM

Thanks for this Del and Baz, as Del has mentioned, my answers are that we need to create custom package to handle these updates.

I have been advised that Julian Ford, my friend and colleague had done this for a client elsewhere so if I can I will get a copy of the code and distribute accordingly.

Cheers



Paul
Posted By: delboy

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 14/04/11 06:59 AM

Nice One!!
Posted By: shane02

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 22/04/11 08:35 PM

Hi,

Hope you can help me..please...
I run the retro notification report and an employee appear which is correct. that employee should have a retro but when i run the retro pay element ..the result was ZERO...why? ..i used the generated element set for this run..i used the start date and end date which is indicated also in the notification report...

please help me..
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 24/04/11 06:36 PM

Hi Shane02,

What are you running? Retro Pay by element but using Retro Notifications to generate your Assignment Set? Or Retro Enhanced?

You have said that you get a result of Zero but by this do you mean you get a Retro Entries on your assignment but the value returned in Zero or do you mean that when you run Retro Pay you don't get any Retro Elemnents created for you assignment?

You must be using Retro Pay by element because you mentioned generated element set, not that an element is generated by this process.

Think its best you reply with what version of Retro you're using. That way I hope I can assit you.

Cheers



Paul
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 03/05/11 12:03 PM

Help please.

I think I know whats happeneing but scenario is, I run a Retro Pay by element in my test R12 environment against a number of employees. I then switched over to Retro Enhanced and created an Retro Event Group. Attached this to the elements in question. I have run the Retro Notifications process to make sure that I have as yet no-one triggered for Retro BUT my Retro Status page is showing every one as at the start of time?!?!?!

Does this mean that Triggers are created for all assignments, who have outstanding Retro activity still outstanding, when you switch retro pay over to enhanced?

Cheers



Paul
Posted By: Gus

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/05/11 06:44 AM

Hi Paul,

As part of the Transfer from Notifications to Enhanced there is a requirement to set a date against each Assignment that is effectively the Enhanced start date

There is a white paper/doc somewhere detailing this

There can still be a danger that the enhanced process can go back prior to the start date in some cases

Cheers

Gus
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/05/11 07:26 AM

Thanks Gus,

I am not transfering from Notification to Enhanced, I am transfering from RetroPay by Element to Enhanced. What I am after is how do I get the Notifications (Enhanced) to pick up changes at the point of cut over and not pick up all the events it beleives are still active.

Will I need to run Notifications (RetroPay By Element) before I switch over to clear the events out or have the tables cleared down.

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: Gus

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/05/11 07:47 AM

I beleive you cutover then that is it...no going back

If someone wants a retro payment prior to the cutover date it is a manual calc

There is a white paper, EnhancedRetropay.pdf from 2006 by John Rhodes

Get a copy of that it explains it all.....should only take a week or so to digest

The last couple of pages explain initilaization and cutover
Posted By: paulgos

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 04/05/11 07:52 AM

Thanks again Gus.

I did a quick search in Metastink and I found this log, 971871.1 It explains that if you haven't run Retro Notifications before you cut over then there is a script that Oracle have which will deal with this. This is exactly the situation I am in so for once Metalink came up trumps.

Contacting oracle support now to get a copy of the script. Its a leason learnt.

Cheers


Paul
Posted By: Dil

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 19/12/12 01:15 PM

Hi All, sorry to ask a question an old Posting.

I am in the process of putting together a plan for moving from retropay by element to Enhanced retro.

We are on 12.1.3 upgraded back in Feb 2012.

I was looking for some advice/documentation if any on how to make the move as smooth as possible. Which I am sure its not going to be.

I was looking for few pointers in the following areas.

1: Pre checks I would need to do to elements etc before running the concurrent program to move to enhanced retro.

2: Event trigger set up checks
3: use of the Overlap feature
4: Timings of when to move to retro
5: Common issues afterwards

Thanks in advance
Dil
Posted By: DublinRanch

Re: Enhanced Retro & Release 12 - 06/04/13 09:42 AM

Hi,
I came across this thread. I will appreciate it if you can document your findings as promised.

Kind regards
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